nz history and shit

01:58] <heathen_> did a good job of devising his own demise, but wrote a lot of good songs getting there

[01:58] <Scott> suicide?

[01:58] <Scott> or just hard living?

[01:58] <heathen_> hard living

#01[01:58] <jobli> everyone worth a damn devises their own demise

#01[01:59] <jobli> tupac !_!

[01:59] <heathen_> drugs, his mind ate him alive

[01:59] <Scott> drugs suck

#01[01:59] <jobli> drugs rock

[01:59] <Scott> it's true, that old saying - you don't know what you got til it's gone.

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[02:00] <Aleph> im waiting on drugs nowwwwwwwwww

[02:00] <Aleph> but i'm ill, I can't ukin breathe!!!!

[02:00] <Scott> well, a lot of people don't know what they had even after it's gone.

[02:00] <Aleph> fukin*

[02:01] <heathen_> Gram Parsons & Emmylou Harris Hickory Wind Slideshow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S11HnNXcjbk

#01[02:04] <jobli> you don't know what you got till you smoke it

#02[02:04] * Aleph (Me@ABABA2.C3A4CE.22561B.BC6B69) Quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds#)

[02:05] <Scott> i think the human race is lost

[02:05] <Scott> i'm realizing it more day by day

[02:05] <Scott> it's such a pity

[02:05] <Scott> we've developed such beautiy.

[02:06] <Scott> i know nothing lasts forever

[02:06] <Scott> still, it makes me sad how we throw this away

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[02:19] <alive> i am alive.... AND LOVING IT.

[02:19] <heathen_> hello alive

[02:19] <alive> hello

[02:19] <alive> how are you?

[02:20] <heathen_> im good thanks.

[02:20] <heathen_> seems you are feeling fine

[02:20] <alive> that's goooooooood

[02:20] <alive> i am fine!

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[02:21] <alive> i've bottled it. it is within.

#01[02:21] <jobli> Scott speak for yourself kid

[02:21] <alive> i am speaking for myself. who the hell else would i be speaking for?

[02:21] <alive> oh.

[02:21] <alive> Scott.

[02:21] <alive> okay.

[02:21] <alive> i apologise.

[02:23] <alive> okay, carry on :-)

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[02:24] <Scott> huh?

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[02:24] <Scott> i missed something

[02:25] <Scott> what would you like me to say for myself?

[02:25] <Scott> and

[02:25] <Scott> does anyone know how long pancake batter will stay good in the fridge?

[02:25] <Scott> i mean... is 2 weeks too long?

[02:25] <Scott> it doesn't smell bad, but it seems to have turned a darker color.

#01[02:27] <jobli> that you are lost

#01[02:27] <jobli> thats what i want you to say

[02:27] <Scott> i'm lost?

#06[02:27] * Scott clears throat

[02:27] <Scott> I am lost.

[02:27] <Scott> why am i saying "I am lost"?

#01[02:28] <jobli> becuase you are speaking for yourself

#01[02:29] <jobli> not all of humanity

[02:29] <Scott> ll

[02:29] <Scott> oh that

[02:30] <Scott> you know, i begin to suspect that you kinda missed the point

[02:30] <Scott> probably because you're brain's been affected by drugs.

[02:31] <heathen_> the rolling stones - tell me http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDwbXlhjP0

#01[02:32] <jobli> anti drug people are so patrionising

#01[02:32] <jobli> i attribute it to them being squares

[02:34] <Scott> actually....

#01[02:34] <jobli> you are an oblong?

[02:34] <Scott> i also suspect you don't know what "patronizing" actually means

[02:35] <Scott> also....

#01[02:35] <jobli> it means talking down to people like ^^^

[02:35] <Scott> "square" is in the eye of the beholder.

#01[02:35] <jobli> and take your imperialist zed and shove it yank

[02:36] <Scott> you're now making absolutely no sense

[02:36] <Scott> probably you're brain's affected by drugs

[02:37] <Scott> now, i'm citing this as something i believe to be a likely explanation.

#01[02:37] <jobli> it makes no sense to the ignorant

[02:37] <Scott> i'm wondering what you're internal definition of "ignorant" might be, too

#01[02:37] <jobli> putting a z in patronising is the american spelling retard

#01[02:38] <jobli> thats what it means

#01[02:38] <jobli> get some fucking self awareness

[02:39] <Scott> actually, what you want me to have, i think, is international awareness.

#01[02:39] <jobli> its all relational

[02:40] <Scott> you're a regular einstein, aren't you?

#01[02:40] <jobli> i wassn't aware you could sneer through text but somehow you manage it

[02:41] <Scott> well, at least you recognize irony.

#01[02:41] <jobli> word

[02:41] <Scott> you have missed the deeper sneer, though, i think.

#06[02:41] * Scott giggles

#01[02:42] <jobli> so

#01[02:42] <jobli> what now

[02:42] <Scott> this time i'll blame a combination of drugs and pink floyd

#01[02:42] <jobli> i hate pink floyd

[02:42] <Scott> anyway... what would you like to do now?

#01[02:42] <jobli> so the combination of drugs and hating pink floyd

[02:43] <Scott> it's not quite so direct

[02:43] <Scott> i was thinking of "not needing no education"

[02:44] <Scott> at this point, my humor's getting so obscure, i can barely keep track of it.

#01[02:44] <jobli> is this going somewhere?

[02:44] <Scott> i think we should move on.

#01[02:44] <jobli> yeah

[02:45] <Scott> by the way - if you were wondering - pancake batter will still work after two weeks in the fridge.

[02:46] <Scott> they're a bit flat

[02:46] <Scott> but still tasty

[02:47] <Scott> so you disagree with my diagnosis about the human race, eh?

#01[02:48] <jobli> yeah

#01[02:48] <jobli> i think its needlessly defeatist :P

[02:49] <Scott> what's it like where you live?

#01[02:49] <jobli> alright... i have contact with a small segement of the population though

[02:50] <Scott> lucky

#01[02:50] <jobli> almost all of who are green voting athiests of various stripes

[02:51] <Scott> here in Missouri, USA, it's very rural, sparsely populated, mainly by redneck republicans. we have forests and fields mostly, corn and cows. the weather is sometimes great, but the past 4 years have been either drought or flood.

[02:53] <Scott> i threw in that republican bit because you mentioned the green party

[02:53] <Scott> pretty cunning, eh?

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#01[02:55] <jobli> anywhere in america seems pretty dire man

[02:55] <Scott> depending how you look at things, yes.

#01[02:55] <jobli> i found traveling around the states pretty oppressive

[02:56] <Scott> in what ways?

#01[02:56] <jobli> just a general feeling of dispair

#01[02:56] <jobli> this was back in 2010 though

[02:56] <Scott> yes

[02:56] <Scott> it's been bad since those bankers stole all that money, put it in offshore accounts, and had their local bank accounts refilled by the government.

[02:57] <Scott> which i think was late in 2009

[02:57] <Scott> if i remember right

#01[02:57] <jobli> 2008

[02:57] <Scott> ah

[02:57] <Scott> thanks

#01[02:57] <jobli> but yeah

#01[02:57] <jobli> i don't drive

#01[02:57] <jobli> mass homelessness was unavoidable

#01[02:58] <jobli> alot worse even than europe

#01[02:58] <jobli> a million times worse than here

[02:58] <Scott> yes

#02[02:58] * neko (boo@FE66F3.B47D26.1D834A.7A8230) Quit (Quit: #)

[02:58] <Scott> as long as you can convince people they're free and living in the greatest country in the world, you can feed them next to nothing

[02:58] <Scott> and enslave them in any way

[02:59] <Scott> steal everything they've got

[02:59] <Scott> strip them of their rights

[02:59] <Scott> dump poison in their food and air and land and water

[02:59] <Scott> so long as they're aware that they're free, just about anything's ok

#01[03:00] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:01] <jobli> oprah was esspcially disgusting

[03:01] <Scott> good lord

[03:01] <Scott> you must have been seeking out torturous sights

#01[03:01] <jobli> she'd regualarly air episodes about how "american women are the most free on earth"

#01[03:01] <jobli> europe doesn't exist i guess

#01[03:01] <jobli> nah

#01[03:01] <jobli> we get alot of american tv here

[03:01] <Scott> was this before she found ekart tolle?

#01[03:02] <jobli> yes

#01[03:03] <jobli> this would have been

#01[03:03] <jobli> 2003-2006ish i imagine

[03:04] <Scott> ah ok

[03:04] <Scott> so you think england is in better shape, eh?

[03:05] <Scott> europe in general?

[03:05] <Scott> (except spain and italy, i guess)

#01[03:05] <jobli> i think the culture in england is in a better position to make the neccicary changes

#01[03:05] <jobli> well

#01[03:05] <jobli> britian

[03:05] <Scott> yes

[03:06] <Scott> i wonder.

#01[03:06] <jobli> i don't know how commited the rest of europe is to anti fascism

#01[03:06] <jobli> i think britian has a very effective anti fascist network though

[03:07] <Scott> i'd have guessed you're politicians were just as beholden to large financial donors as ours are here.

#01[03:07] <jobli> and i think thats a better defence than guns

#01[03:07] <jobli> sorry

#01[03:07] <jobli> i'm in new zealand

[03:07] <Scott> lol

[03:07] <Scott> guns is such a distraction issue

[03:07] <Scott> ohhh

[03:07] <Scott> i dunno why i thought england

#01[03:07] <jobli> and i don't know is our politions are "beholden" so much as willing pawns

[03:07] <Scott> new zealand's still in very good shape, ya

[03:08] <Scott> lol willing pawns?

#01[03:08] <jobli> i don't think our politicans are even getting paid for selling us out

[03:08] <Scott> i thought new zealand had some great ways of doing anything

[03:08] <Scott> wow

[03:08] <Scott> that's disappointing

#01[03:08] <jobli> the neoliberal rot is deep set in the two major parties here

#01[03:08] <jobli> we pretty much went full "free market" in 1984

[03:08] <Scott> i think that must be programmed into us genetically

[03:09] <Scott> so what about the environmental protection laws?

#01[03:09] <jobli> i think the population in generally is fairly resistant to it

#01[03:09] <jobli> its hard to say

[03:09] <Scott> to environmental protection? or full free market?

#01[03:09] <jobli> neoliberal policies

[03:10] <Scott> oh

[03:10] <Scott> the trend seems to be... it doesn't matter what the masses think.

#01[03:10] <jobli> but yeah its hard to say on enviromental protection

#01[03:10] <jobli> i think its still fairly strict on industry

[03:10] <Scott> i agree guns are useless, but so is protest, really.

#01[03:10] <jobli> but our main polutters are dairy farms

#01[03:10] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:11] <jobli> we have MMP so theres a chance voting could change things

#01[03:11] <jobli> greens are slowly gaining votes

#01[03:11] <jobli> they got over 10% last election

[03:11] <Scott> nice

[03:11] <Scott> only like 3% here

#01[03:12] <jobli> compared to labour (the established centre left party) which got 30%

[03:13] <Scott> of course, we don't have that alternate choice voting thing

#01[03:13] <jobli> and 10% of the vote is 14 seats

#01[03:13] <jobli> so its not too bad

[03:13] <Scott> i expect our greens would get a lot higher percentage if we had it

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[03:14] <Scott> what's MMP?

#01[03:14] <jobli> mixed member proportional

[03:14] <Scott> ok

[03:14] <Scott> that's the thing where you can pick two

#01[03:14] <jobli> yeah

[03:14] <Scott> a first choice and a 2nd

[03:14] <Scott> ok

#01[03:14] <jobli> no

[03:14] <Scott> no?

#01[03:14] <jobli> you get one party vote

#01[03:14] <jobli> and one vote for a local representitive

#01[03:15] <jobli> each party gets a number of seats in preportion to the ammount of votes it gets in the party vote

#01[03:15] <jobli> (if its over 5%)

#01[03:16] <jobli> its like the german system basicly

[03:16] <Scott> i'm not sure how that would help change thigs

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#01[03:18] <jobli> well under first past the post (where you only vote for a local representive) it was basicly a choice between a labour mp or a national (tory) mp if you wanted your vote to infljuence things nationally... so we ended up with a two party system

#01[03:19] <jobli> under mmp your party vote is taken as a national vote... so it just has to be 5% of people in the country voting for a party for it to get into parliment

#01[03:19] <jobli> rather than having to have a majority in a local electorate to get someone into parliment

#01[03:20] <jobli> so we have 7 parties in parliment right now

#01[03:20] <jobli> sorry

#01[03:20] <jobli> 8

[03:21] <Scott> does it seem to help?

#01[03:21] <jobli> yes

#01[03:21] <jobli> alot

#01[03:21] <jobli> theres some non neoliberal representation

#01[03:21] <jobli> as opposed to none when it was just national and labour

#01[03:22] <jobli> the greens are generally a moderating influence when labour is in power

#01[03:22] <jobli> since the major parties have to form coalitions in order to govern under mmp

[03:22] <Scott> i see

[03:23] <Scott> i understand now, yes.

#01[03:23] <jobli> and if you break 5% you get 8 mps

#01[03:24] <jobli> which is some signifigant bargining power

[03:24] <Scott> yeah

#06[03:24] * Scott shakes head

[03:24] <Scott> i wonder how your country managed it

#01[03:25] <jobli> heh... national made an election promise back in 1990 that they'd put a change in the voting system up for a refurendum if they won

#01[03:25] <jobli> and they won

#01[03:26] <jobli> and they didn't expect people to actually vote to make the system less shitty

#01[03:26] <jobli> more fool them

#01[03:26] <jobli> they tried to undo it last election

#01[03:26] <jobli> it got voted down hard

[03:26] <Scott> :)

[03:26] <Scott> that's pretty awesome

#01[03:27] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:27] <jobli> unfortunatly they are in power atm and are trying to privatise our power plants

[03:27] <Scott> bastards

#01[03:28] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:28] <jobli> its purely idiological

#01[03:28] <jobli> they won't get much for them

#01[03:28] <jobli> becuase people have thrown a million spoilers in their way

#01[03:28] <jobli> maori have lawsuits pending over water rights

#01[03:28] <jobli> (they are hyrdo plants)

#01[03:28] <jobli> labour and the greens have promised to put a cap on power prices

[03:29] <Scott> idiology is just the excuse

#01[03:29] <jobli> nah

#01[03:29] <jobli> the excuse is "we are in debt we need to sell sell sell"

#01[03:29] <jobli> but its neoliberal globalist idiology driving it

[03:29] <Scott> yeah. corporations want to control utilities, so they make this big move on representatives and media

[03:30] <Scott> they make this big excuse based on idiology so they can sell out to financial powers

#01[03:30] <jobli> yeah

[03:30] <Scott> then instead of the people controling the utilities, some rich guy does

[03:30] <Scott> and the prices start to rise

#01[03:31] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:31] <jobli> at this stage is sustained through their own propaganda though

#01[03:31] <jobli> as in

#01[03:31] <jobli> they are buying their own talking points from the 80s

#01[03:31] <jobli> trickle down bullshit

#01[03:31] <jobli> the invisible hand

[03:31] <Scott> lol

#01[03:31] <jobli> dole bludgers

#01[03:32] <jobli> they're having a hard time of it though

[03:32] <Scott> oh?

#01[03:32] <jobli> i'm hopeful this marks a turning point

[03:32] <Scott> yeah

[03:32] <Scott> you're right

[03:32] <Scott> i noticed over the past five years

#01[03:32] <jobli> back in the 80's when this shit swept in there was a fire sale on everything

[03:32] <Scott> a lot of people are

#01[03:32] <jobli> telecommunications

[03:32] <Scott> what? coming out of the fog

#01[03:32] <jobli> rail

[03:32] <Scott> waking up

#01[03:32] <jobli> airlines

#01[03:33] <jobli> well its just obvious as hell it doesn't work

#01[03:33] <jobli> history proves it

[03:33] <Scott> oh well, it's been tried and tested here in the USA

#01[03:33] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:33] <jobli> public forests

[03:33] <Scott> the point is... it doesn't work for WHO?

#01[03:33] <jobli> for the voters

[03:33] <Scott> it works damned well for rich guys

[03:33] <Scott> so it happens

#01[03:33] <jobli> yeah

#01[03:34] <jobli> but they arn't new zealanders

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[03:34] <Scott> new zealand is pretty special in some ways

#01[03:34] <jobli> we'll see :P

[03:35] <Scott> the maori were the only "natives" to ever beat the english at their own game

#01[03:36] <jobli> its a complicated relationship

[03:36] <Scott> or, well, they at very least held their own

#01[03:37] <jobli> if theres any hope for magnanomous race relations working out anywhere new zealand has the best chance

[03:37] <Scott> magnanomous race relations

#01[03:37] <jobli> :P

[03:37] <Scott> i like this lol

[03:38] <Scott> oh, it's an i

[03:38] <Scott> magnanimous

#01[03:38] <jobli> yeah spelling isn't my strong suit

[03:38] <Scott> me neither

[03:38] <Scott> that's why i googled it

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[03:38] <Scott> i felt a twinge

[03:38] <Scott> lol

#01[03:39] <jobli> but yeah... there was only one treaty here and it was taken around the entire country

#01[03:39] <jobli> which makes things reasonably straight foward

[03:40] <Scott> i think those guys were very shrewed negotiators

#01[03:40] <jobli> the stars were right

[03:40] <Scott> @@

[03:40] <Scott> maybe

#01[03:40] <jobli> alot of circumstances worked out favourably

[03:41] <Scott> like what?

#01[03:41] <jobli> new zealand was colonised during the naider of imperialism

#01[03:41] <jobli> pretty much soley to prevent the french getting it

[03:41] <Scott> what's the affect of a nadir?

[03:41] <Scott> in this context?

[03:42] <Scott> the stars, i mean?

#01[03:42] <jobli> its just an expression

[03:42] <Scott> or did you mean ... just the lowest point of the empire?

#01[03:42] <jobli> but the nader means

#01[03:42] <jobli> there wassn't a huge ammount of imperial enthusiasm

#01[03:42] <jobli> comparitivly

#01[03:42] <jobli> to the eras before and after it

#01[03:42] <jobli> it was 1840

[03:43] <Scott> lol ok - you meantioned stars. i thought you meant something astrological -_-

#01[03:43] <jobli> slavery was abolished throughout the empire in 1833

[03:43] <Scott> yeah, i see what you mean

[03:43] <Scott> still, people had that attitude

#01[03:44] <jobli> japan wassn't opened untill the 1850s/60's.... kypling didn't become a major force untill the 1870's

[03:44] <Scott> and new zealand had.. well, some strange resources for trade

[03:44] <Scott> coveted by creepy english people

#01[03:44] <jobli> also the maori were seen as relitively civilised

#01[03:45] <jobli> or good candidates for civilising

#01[03:45] <jobli> compared to the abrorigionies esspecially

[03:45] <Scott> this was more like what i had in mind

[03:45] <Scott> yeah

[03:45] <Scott> and the american indians

#01[03:45] <jobli> maori had agriculture

#01[03:45] <jobli> they had slavery

[03:45] <Scott> and almost every other small place england conquered

[03:46] <Scott> but they were negotiators

#01[03:46] <jobli> they took to working as sailors

#01[03:46] <jobli> and reading

#01[03:46] <jobli> very quickly

#01[03:46] <jobli> yeah

[03:46] <Scott> yes, and smart

[03:46] <Scott> though, i admit, i hadn't considered the slavery angle

#01[03:46] <jobli> also they saw the value of guns almost instantly

[03:46] <Scott> and the changes in imperealis policy

#01[03:46] <jobli> took to the guns

[03:46] <Scott> imperialist*

#01[03:46] <jobli> took to the bible

[03:47] <Scott> heh

[03:47] <Scott> another smart move politically

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#01[03:47] <jobli> they had social stratification which gave them people able to negotiate on behalf of the tribe

[03:48] <Scott> yeah

#01[03:48] <jobli> but also the treaty gave them things they didn't themselves demand

[03:49] <Scott> you said kypling didn't become a major force untill the 1870... how does that play into this?

#01[03:49] <jobli> which were the products of the nader of imperialism

#01[03:49] <jobli> like british citizenship

#01[03:49] <jobli> or

#01[03:49] <jobli> sorry

#01[03:49] <jobli> the rights of british subjects

[03:49] <Scott> ok

[03:49] <Scott> i understnad

[03:49] <Scott> understand

#01[03:49] <jobli> which ment they were equal under the law

#01[03:50] <jobli> also there was a french missionary present during the drafting of the treaty who insisted in freedom of religion being added

[03:50] <Scott> heh

[03:50] <Scott> that's interesting

[03:51] <Scott> seems ... i don't know... unlikely

[03:51] <Scott> wouldn't a missionary be concerned with giving people the freedom to worship his own religion and no other?

#01[03:51] <jobli> well it wouldn't have been hard to impose uniformity of religion

#01[03:52] <jobli> due to anglicans and presbytarians both being british

#01[03:52] <jobli> well the french missionary was catholic of course

[03:52] <Scott> oh

[03:52] <Scott> ok, i see

[03:52] <Scott> which put churches in a position of competition

[03:52] <Scott> which gave them an interest in the people

[03:53] <Scott> which added some protection for the people

[03:53] <Scott> now i see

#01[03:54] <jobli> also maori could only legally sell land to the government

#01[03:55] <jobli> which prevented rampant exploitation by private parties

[03:55] <Scott> heh

[03:55] <Scott> back then

[03:56] <Scott> i thought you guys still had good protection for the land

[03:56] <Scott> some guy was telling me about the regulations around construction sites

#01[03:56] <jobli> i mean rampant exploitation of maori

[03:56] <Scott> sorry - i moved us forward in time to now

[03:56] <Scott> :P

#01[03:56] <jobli> yeah contruction permission is pretty sringent

#01[03:57] <jobli> also maori retain various land rights

[03:57] <Scott> that's cool

[03:57] <Scott> it seems like you have good reason for hope

#01[03:57] <jobli> partly due to government ignoring the treaty

#01[03:57] <jobli> so the outcome of various settlements

#01[03:58] <jobli> legal settlements

#01[03:58] <jobli> theres a court that just deals with treaty claims

[03:58] <Scott> i think we just gave our natives whiskey and welfare checks.

[03:58] <Scott> that took care of it for them

[03:59] <Scott> those that were left after the slaughter.

[03:59] <Scott> see why i admire the maori?

#01[03:59] <jobli> thats the benifit of one treaty

[03:59] <Scott> even if the stars were with them, they still had the brains to make use of that opportunity.

#01[04:00] <jobli> there were conflicts in the north island that lasted about 30 years after the treaty

#01[04:01] <jobli> the maori were fairy vicious and into warfare and revenge

#01[04:01] <jobli> probably why we get on :P

[04:02] <Scott> yes, i know

[04:02] <Scott> lol

#01[04:02] <jobli> but yeah another case of good luck

#01[04:02] <jobli> the conflict died out right about the start of the new imperialism

#01[04:02] <jobli> or rather

#01[04:02] <jobli> just before the start

#01[04:03] <jobli> the british pulled their troops out before the conflicts were over

#01[04:04] <jobli> shit could probably have gone very sour had they still been raging in the 1870s

[04:04] <Scott> how?

[04:04] <Scott> what do you mean?

#01[04:05] <jobli> there was a resurgence of imperialism in the 1870's

[04:05] <Scott> oh, i see

#01[04:05] <jobli> kipling etc.

[04:05] <Scott> well, i mean, that's probably why they pulled out.

#01[04:05] <jobli> also germany suddenly became a player

#01[04:05] <jobli> nah

#01[04:05] <jobli> they pulled out well before then

[04:05] <Scott> shrunken heads are great fun and all, but the real money's in tea

#01[04:06] <jobli> the franco prussian was was the turning point

[04:06] <Scott> weren't they just all over asia about then?

#01[04:06] <jobli> china was on going

[04:06] <Scott> dam, you are just a history fooking genius

#01[04:06] <jobli> but the scrable for africa started in the 1870s

[04:06] <Scott> i'm keeping you.

#06[04:06] * Scott nods

[04:07] <Scott> ahh right

#01[04:07] <jobli> also germanys defeat of france was a major upset to the ballance of power

#01[04:07] <jobli> everyone thought france was invincible

#01[04:07] <jobli> or at least

#01[04:07] <jobli> the best army in europe

#01[04:08] <jobli> and prussia crushed them quick fast

#01[04:08] <jobli> paris became the first communist government on earth (for a few months)

[04:08] <Scott> heh.

[04:08] <Scott> i didn't know that.

#01[04:08] <jobli> italy was suddenly independant

#01[04:09] <jobli> 6th form history was the only class i learned a damned thing in in high school

[04:09] <Scott> lol

#01[04:09] <jobli> it was basicly a whole year about the unification of germany

[04:10] <Scott> well, you learned it pretty well, it seems

#01[04:10] <jobli> a topic i'd have never looked at by myself

#01[04:10] <jobli> alot of this is independant research

#01[04:10] <jobli> but it makes the timeline easyer

[04:10] <Scott> i need a timeline. that might help me organize things in my head.

#01[04:10] <jobli> becuase most of this relates strongly to germanys various wars of unification

[04:11] <Scott> i know 1870 is after the french revolution, so england must have been having trouble at home with people wanting some sort of better life/freedom/government

[04:11] <Scott> whigs and tories then, right?

[04:11] <Scott> the governnment of england was kind of in a shambles at that tine

[04:11] <Scott> time

#01[04:11] <jobli> it was just the general victorian era

#01[04:12] <jobli> i think most european progressivism was still exausted after 1848

#01[04:12] <jobli> when there was a series of failed revolutions (though not in the uk)

[04:13] <Scott> yeah, i guess the french revolution was too far back for that to still be going on

#01[04:13] <jobli> there were some large scale protests though

#01[04:13] <jobli> but that was part of the point of empire

[04:13] <Scott> what was part of the point?

#01[04:13] <jobli> somewhere to ship everyone disgruntled/ in search of opportunites off too

[04:13] <Scott> ahhh ok

[04:13] <Scott> i see. yeah.

#01[04:13] <jobli> the british empire might never have existed had america not become independant

#03[04:14] * obsessed (obsessed@0E57D4.A7E93B.FD2747.105F3D) has joined #Buddhism

#01[04:14] <jobli> or at least not as behemoth it became

[04:14] <Scott> they still sent people here, didn't they?

#01[04:14] <jobli> canada?

[04:14] <Scott> oh... they prefered australia

[04:14] <Scott> cuz they could control them

#01[04:14] <jobli> new zealand was all volentary immigration

[04:15] <Scott> i meant USA, but yeah. i dunno what i'm talking about, though.

#01[04:15] <jobli> but it was almost entirely working class

[04:15] <Scott> yeah, but people they wanted to exile were sent to australia

#01[04:15] <jobli> becuase better than dying in a factory for an unlivable wage

#01[04:15] <jobli> yeah

#01[04:15] <jobli> before that they usually hung 'em

[04:15] <Scott> so people who actually Wanted to go, went to new zealand

#01[04:16] <jobli> so sending them to australia was the merciful option :P

[04:16] <Scott> another bonus for you, i guess

[04:16] <Scott> lol well... i kinda like australia.

[04:16] <Scott> it's fascinating.

[04:16] <Scott> kangaroos and stuff.

[04:16] <Scott> :D

#01[04:16] <jobli> australia got volentary immigration reasonably early on... i don't think they stopped sending convicts untill the 1850s though

[04:16] <Aleph> didgeridoos , wombats and boomerangs

[04:17] <Scott> my dad was about to leave for australia when he died. i was like 2 months old.

[04:17] <Aleph> #6C# #Y##4a# #3B##4e# #3B##4a##6C###3K# ##4i####6N# #4a# #3B###4i##T#

[04:17] <Scott> had he not gotten killed, i'd probably be living there now.

#01[04:17] <jobli> its hot

[04:17] <Scott> so i've heard :)

[04:17] <Scott> no, i might crash on your couch for fun

[04:18] <Scott> but i'm not heading to australia

[04:18] <Scott> not unless it's that or hang

[04:18] <Scott> lol

#01[04:18] <jobli> you wouldn't like it

#01[04:18] <jobli> i am drug addled :P

[04:18] <Scott> australia's fascinating from a distance

[04:18] <Scott> lol yes

[04:18] <Scott> but you're smart for now

[04:18] <Scott> that'll all go away in a decade or so

[04:19] <Scott> til then, i'll let you host me

[04:19] <Scott> lol

#01[04:19] <jobli> if smoking weed makes you dumb i must have been a genieus when i was younger - time shadbolt (mayor of the city i am from)

[04:19] <Scott> i'll definitely take the history lessons

[04:20] <Scott> well.. i was a genius when i was younger.

[04:20] <Scott> definitely not now.

#01[04:20] <jobli> i just worry people have low expectations

[04:20] <Scott> what do you mean?

#01[04:21] <jobli> of what smart it

[04:21] <Scott> i can't define it. i know it when i see it.

[04:22] <Scott> (Justice Potter Stewart - on pornography)

[04:22] <Scott> see, smart is knowing the first line.

[04:22] <Scott> genius is knowing the second line (the attribution) without google.

[04:23] <Scott> i'm kidding, actually.

[04:23] <Scott> lol

#01[04:23] <jobli> i think the most important characterist is possessing an intellectual curiosity

#01[04:23] <jobli> characteristic

[04:24] <Scott> maybe

[04:24] <Scott> but curiosity's no good if you can't "put two and two together"

[04:24] <Scott> and that takes a measure of creativity

#01[04:24] <jobli> you can learn to put two and two together if you care enough to find out how

[04:25] <Scott> seeing not just the facts, but the connections between things and how to apply the knowledge

#01[04:25] <jobli> lsd is good for that

[04:25] <Scott> maybe for a time

[04:25] <Scott> but it destroys your natural ability to do so

#01[04:25] <jobli> usually about 6 to 8 hours

#01[04:26] <jobli> i think society if far more destructive in that regard

[04:26] <Scott> anyway, i'm not going to bicker with a druggie about drugs.

[04:26] <Scott> true

[04:26] <Scott> education is shit

#02[04:26] * La_IamImmorte (La@09709F.3FA442.911717.BFB4FF) Quit (Quit: #)

[04:26] <Scott> media is shit

[04:26] <Scott> food is shit

[04:26] <Scott> well, i'm speaking of here

[04:26] <Scott> i dunno how it is there

#01[04:27] <jobli> dealing with people who don't get irony or sarcasm

#01[04:27] <jobli> thats the worst

#01[04:27] <jobli> it killed me

[04:27] <Scott> heh

[04:27] <Scott> well... i can do it.

[04:27] <Scott> it's not as fun :D

#01[04:27] <jobli> working with them man

#06[04:27] * Scott shudders

#01[04:28] <jobli> theres no getting around it when you work with them

#01[04:28] <jobli> then you just stop caring

#01[04:28] <jobli> about anything

[04:28] <Scott> because you work with dull people?

[04:28] <Scott> hmmm

#01[04:28] <jobli> you have to censor yourself all the time

#01[04:28] <jobli> and state things plainly

[04:28] <Scott> ahhh yeah, i see what you mean

[04:28] <Scott> that would be tough

#01[04:29] <jobli> p soul destorying

[04:29] <Scott> i've lol well

[04:29] <Scott> you can come play in icq - that'll liven up your soul

[04:29] <Scott> i'll introduce you to some smart ones

#01[04:29] <jobli> :P

[04:29] <Scott> crazy smart

[04:29] <Scott> i'm serious

[04:29] <Scott> i just love them

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#01[04:29] Scott is Scott@ED0186.03C53B.5DC97A.D8B4A8 * Scott

#01[04:29] Scott on #Buddhism #lost

#01[04:29] Scott using irc-m01a.orange.icq.com ICQ IRC Server (LEAF)

#01[04:29] Scott is logged in as scott

#01[04:29] Scott has been idle 6secs, signed on Sun Apr 28 01:45:47

#01[04:29] Scott End of /WHOIS list.

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[04:30] <Scott> well, unfortunately, they're not around much these days

#01[04:30] <jobli> sounds smart already

[04:30] <Scott> lol

[04:30] <Scott> true

[04:30] <Scott> we had a really good year last year

[04:30] <Scott> and the year before

#01[04:31] <jobli> i had a great year in 2011

[04:31] <Scott> though you might have called it an addiction problem

#01[04:31] <jobli> living with hippies

[04:31] <Scott> in chat?

[04:31] <Scott> ahhh

[04:31] <mrpanda> BURP

#06[04:31] * Scott fashions a panda trap using a length of rope, a large wicker basket, and a bowling ball

#03[04:32] * athena (Me@2A45CA.16EF76.06020C.ADF998) has joined #Buddhism

[04:32] <athena> MrChips r u from singapore ?

#03[04:33] * athena (Me@2A45CA.16EF76.06020C.ADF998) has left #Buddhism

#02[04:35] * Aleph (Me@ABABA2.C3A4CE.37CEAB.51B538) Quit (Connection closed#)

#03[04:35] * Aleph (Me@ABABA2.C3A4CE.37CEAB.51B538) has joined #Buddhism

[04:36] <Scott> iceland is another good country for politics

[04:36] <Scott> i'm anxious to see how things go there

[04:52] <Scott> hm. or not. looks like they've blown it already.

#01[04:52] <jobli> hows that

[04:53] <Scott> they had some kind of revolution, forced the government to resign

[04:53] <Scott> that was a year or two ago

#01[04:53] <jobli> yeah

[04:53] <Scott> now it looks like they're right back where they were before.

#01[04:53] <jobli> :P

[04:54] <Scott> sad.

[04:54] <mrpanda> nice

[04:54] <mrpanda> tat's great news scott !

[04:54] <mrpanda> that's

[04:54] <Scott> @@

[04:54] <mrpanda> the people will never win

[04:54] <mrpanda> we need to keep them on a tight leash

[04:55] <mrpanda> we need to sell dirt for money

[04:55] <mrpanda> and get filthy rich

[04:55] <Scott> i think i'll go away for a while.

[04:55] <Scott> nice meeting you, jobli

#02[04:55] * Scott (Scott@ED0186.03C53B.5DC97A.D8B4A8) Quit (Quit: Reason filtered#)