Reading "living theurgy"

i'm reading a book on neo platonism atm... i need an access point if i want to start preforming ritual magic... as opposed to base sympathetic magic
i read a book once called 'Icons of Power: Ritual Practices in Late Antiquity'
that claimed that theurgy was a development of older pagan rituals
and i'm hopeful that since it was focused on the solitary practitioner that i can backwards engineer it a bit to derive something useful from it
if nothing else some pointers towards forms of meditiation that are a less awkward fit

Projector vs oculus rift for pagan ritual magic

i just bought a projector
i was umming and ahing over whether to get a projector or an oculus rift
they're both around the same price

haha

damn

what made you decide for the projector instead of the oculus?
with the projector you can do more of the digital interacting with the psychical world

that makes sense
the oculus is more about the digital replacing the physicial woirld

word

neither would be a 'bad' thing though
not necessarily.. i feel like it would be alot harder to get the oculus to integrate with my practice
though
a lot harder to watch for omens in an entirely constructed/ logical space
i did come across some "phiosophers" one time speculating about a "metaphysical computer game" where you influence the seemingly random movement of objects on screen with your thoughts
if i was going to do that though i'd want to use an outside random number generator. not a computer algorithm
but thats why i'm reading these cyberculture things... in the hopes i find some interesting ideas that suggest the use of other technologies

On the power of discordianism to remake the world

[03:28] <Verde> there is a bit of serious with all the silly

[03:28] <Verde> brb

[03:28] <@Alusa> i tend to work intuitively

[03:28] <@Alusa> i suppose as long as they balance each other out

[03:29] <obli> i think the sillier you get the more serious it becomes

[03:29] <obli> expose the sillyness of the world and it becomes easier to take the important things seriously

A statement of purpose

http://www.abladeofgrass.org/growing-dialogue/growing-dialogue-no-longer-interested/
A few seconds ago

That was a real good read, thanks man
no worries

no what are you not interested in?

building a balwark against iconalysim
iconoclasm

so what does that mean (in simple english)
perpetuating idols

so, asking people to re-examine their beliefs ?

or rejecting religion
nope.. the exact opposite
adding to the cultural output of our pre-Christian forebears

mmm yep that makes sense

but rejecting christianity ye?
yep... christianity motivated a lot of iconoclasm
a lot of the most destructive iconoclasts

reiterating art and the occult.......

[19:21] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> th world would be a better place if everyone was a game designer
[19:21] <EDC_> not enough cyberpunk literature ever goes that route
[19:21] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> heh
[19:22] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> but yeah... popularity is a trap
[19:22] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> set more interesting goals
[19:23] <EDC_> well being able to make enough money to support myself through game development, while remaining entirely unpopular WOULD be a far more interesting goal
[19:24] <EDC_> fuck it, I am far too clever a person to have conventional goals anyhow!
[19:25] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> yes
[19:25] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> subvert all convention
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[19:28] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> best to have pure goals like counteracting iconoclasts
[19:28] <EDC_> that same book on game design said games are defined by their ability to cause people's brains to engage in learned behavior
[19:28] <EDC_> I think I have just found my subversion target!
[19:29] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> disengaging peoples brains?
[19:29] <EDC_> I was raised in a generation that claimed playing games will rot your brain! I will now take that baseless claim as an upfront CHALLENGE!
[19:30] <EDC_> my games will be so subversive! playing them will make you forget having ever played them!
[19:30] <EDC_> the replay potential would be literally infinite
[19:30] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> like polybius
[19:30] <EDC_> god damnit! of COURSE someone else has already done it!
[19:31] <EDC_> that's exactly how it goes in this industry
[19:31] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> pity you didn't come from the 80's... you could aid me in making games to convert children to the occult
[19:32] <EDC_> there's a statute of limitations on that? or do you just mean in the sense that such a goal is superfluous now that Harry Potter exists
[19:33] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> 19:29] <EDC_> I was raised in a generation that claimed playing games will rot your brain! I will now take that baseless claim as an upfront CHALLENGE!
[19:33] <EDC_> wait... are you trying to imply that converting to the occult will rot your brain?
[19:33] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> i'm saying in the 80's people thought dnd was an occult plot
[19:33] <EDC_> they claimed a lot of things of games in the 80's-90's, don't just assume they are all saying the game thing
[19:34] <EDC_> our school thought Magic: the Gathering was an occult plot
[19:34] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> i'm in new zealand
[19:34] <EDC_> funny thing is I never remembered seeing anyone playing Angel or Demon decks
[19:34] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> that kind of frothing insanity is less common here
[19:34] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> but it surrounded dnd
[19:35] <EDC_> it's like the Yu-Gi-Oh of DnD games (or the DnD of YuGiOh games?)
[19:36] <EDC_> point is, if you start exercising your imagination, then you might start thinking that the Bible could be imagined
[19:36] <EDC_> and that's exactly how spontaneous combustion happens
[19:38] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> yerp
[19:38] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> but a lot of early fantasy fiction was written by occultists as well... though i doubt the maniacs leading the witchhunt knew that
[19:39] <EDC_> well to be fair, reading a book on the occult technically qualifies you as an "occultist"
[19:40] <EDC_> they also said the same thing of the early christmas fiction writers
[19:40] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> i think theres more to it than that
[19:40] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> reading the bible doesn't make you a christian
[19:41] <EDC_> then why is it even called "The Holy Bible"?
[19:41] <EDC_> are you implying it's not actually holy?
[19:41] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> because there's so many holes in the story
[19:41] <EDC_> aww SNAP!
[19:42] <EDC_> I did not think you'd go there, when you already DID!
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[19:44] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> but yeah... a couple of the early weird fiction writers were ceremonial magicians, a lot of the early modern art movements had links to occult movements... there's plenty of examples up until about lewis/tolkien
[19:44] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> then tolkien fanboys took over
[19:45] <EDC_> it's all a fanboy wank-chain nowadays, the exact same thing happened to the animation industry
[19:45] <EDC_> it's not "subversive", it's "derivative"!
[19:46] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> yep
[19:46] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> lacks substance
[19:46] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> fan fics
[19:46] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> 50 shades of orcs
[19:48] <EDC_> although ironically enough my ultimate dream game idea is nothing more than a genre mashup tolkein fan-wank
[19:48] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> heh
[19:49] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> prehaps you need some deep occultism
[19:49] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> become a romantic
[19:49] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> or a goth
[19:49] <EDC_> yeah, it DESPERATELY needs those occultist overtones
[19:49] <EDC_> it's really the only thing that could tie the whole kit-n-kaboodle together
[19:50] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> undertones man
[19:50] <EDC_> nope, it'd be overtones in this case
[19:50] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> heh
[19:51] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> you ever wanted to make a fishing game
[19:51] <EDC_> to sum it up in one sentence, the goal of this game would be to take the phrase "Bullet Hell" as literally as possible
[19:51] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> so the bullets would be demosn
[19:51] <EDC_> the bullets would be demons that also spit bullets
[19:51] <EDC_> that are probably also demons
[19:52] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> who would be the shootist
[19:52] <EDC_> you
[19:52] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> nooooooooo
[19:52] <EDC_> did I just blow your mind yet?

Sun of Vergina as ritual object

[04:18] <obli> what do you guys think of modern -origional- interpretations of ancient symbols

[04:18] <obli> can they ever be valid

[04:20] <Verde> not sure...but, I think as long as you understand the older meaning and then do your own ,educated spin it's plausible....not sure what Otter's take.

[04:20] <Verde> kinda like the pentagram to me reminds me of my place in the universe.

[04:20] <Verde> Tj has an interesting take on the ankh....he adds the yin yang symbol to it I think.

[04:22] <obli> i've been looking at the meaning attributed to the 16 pointed star, that was a reoccurring element in greek art

[04:22] <obli> star/sun

[04:22] <obli> https://occultassociations.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/sunofvergina16rayed.jpg?w=640

[04:23] <obli> basicly theres a youtube video relating the 16 points to the 4 elements and 12 olympian gods

[04:24] <obli> but it doesn't seem to be based on anything... other than dick waving over who owns the sign between the greeks and macedonians

[04:25] <obli> seems to have been mainly a decorative element... though it appears associated with athena quite regularly on greek vases

[04:25] <obli> and it has obvious ties to the sun

[04:26] <Verde> nod....Greek is right up my alley if you dinno

[04:26] <Verde> hmmmm

[04:26] <Verde> sounds like you've studied

[04:26] <Verde> hmmm....it's a shame that Eugenios has been scarce lately

[04:26] <Verde> I mainly work with Artemis/Pan and Hekate

[04:27] <Verde> I get frustrated with folk that think that Hekate is pretty much solely for hexes....sigh

[04:28] <obli> i'm probably going to start working with it

[04:28] <obli> but i can see immediate issues

[04:29] <obli> the four cardinal directions clockwise from the north are fire,water,earth,air

[04:30] <Verde> you'll figure it out

[04:30] <obli> and they divide it so the top half are heavenly deities and the bottom half chthonic

[04:30] <obli> those on the right gods and those on the left goddess's

[04:31] <Verde> so basically opposite of say Wiccan correspondences and the like

[04:32] <obli> the problem is, with that set up you can't have goddess associated with water.. which seems like an obvious fit for aphrodite....

[04:32] <Verde> now have you studied anything like Abramelin?

[04:32] <@Otter> b

[04:32] <Verde> wb

[04:33] <@Otter> hi Verde, Obli

[04:33] <obli> would you consider Agrippa's three books like it

[04:33] <Verde> you might scroll back if you haven't and you are awake enough

[04:33] <obli> hey otter

[04:34] <Verde> hmmmm I hadn't thought of that....although the reason why I brought up Abramelin is that you basically have to complete it yourself...fill in the blanks

[04:36] <Verde> I'm wanting to get the Pythagorean deck....tarot is dangerous once you get hooked lol

[04:36] <Verde> then again so are books

[04:37] <Verde> just kills me what some of our out of print occult books go for nowadays

[04:38] <obli> i find the prices for recently out of print stuff alot more offensive than for old stuff

[04:38] <Verde> well depends on what you call old....

[04:38] <obli> i got a first edition of ward's ancient secret sign language for $25 us the other day :P

[04:38] <Verde> we have one that is worth 650 US

[04:39] <obli> whats that

[04:39] <Verde> one of Crowley's books I don't remember which one

[04:39] <@Otter> obli, would the drop of this in it's oppsosite concept help?

[04:40] <obli> you mean the division of the circle into gods on one side and goddess on the other?

[04:40] <@Otter> like you see in the yin/yang symbol

[04:40] <@Otter> yes

[04:40] <obli> or changing the elements associated witht eh cardinal directions

[04:40] <@Otter> and wanting to get Aphrodite wet

[04:40] <obli> heh

[04:40] <obli> maybe

[04:41] <obli> i'm sure there's a lot of ways to approach it

[04:41] <Verde> I did not need that visualization Otter

[04:41] <Verde> :P

[04:42] <obli> since it has no historical underpinning i'm basically free to play with it as i will i think... theres nothing to say the person who made the original youtube video had any idea what they were doing

[04:42] <Verde> and here I am trying to get in the mindset on a healing ritual later....my wand is beckoning me

[04:42] <Verde> true that obli

[04:42] <Verde> or it could be what worked for them

[04:42] <obli> but it could be potentially useful with some massaging

[04:43] <@Otter> ah, this is based on  youtube?

[04:43] <Verde> well, there is distance and the like involved so I can't massage this person

[04:43] <obli> at least as a jumping off point for more rigorous study of the individual deities...

[04:44] <obli> yeah otter

[04:44] <obli> the symbol has been at the center of a spat between Greece and Macedonia for the past 30 years

[04:45] <obli> so i assume that was at least some of the impetuous behind whoever made the video making it.

[04:46] <obli> but the fact it was a common symbol in greek art... and has strong ties to Athena... make it attractive... as well at the whole... 16 aspect

[04:46] <obli> which is also a factor in the trumps of first recorded tarot deck

[04:47] <obli> from the 1400's

[04:47] <obli> which was the 12 Olympic deities and 4 other mythological figures

[04:47] <obli> also its a nice computer number

[04:47] <obli> goes into 2 nicely

[04:48] <obli> which is always good

[04:49] <obli> :P

cover letter

Hi Dean/HR person,

I'm an artist based in Dunedin, just completed a bachelor of visual arts honours. I technically majored in painting, though ended up exploring a lot of mediums, including sculpture and digital.

I have experience in many areas related to game art/ design including 3d modeling (Sculptris, Sketchup), Pixel art and Photoshop, and scripting (Stencyl, Twine, RPGmaker 2000)

Last year my primary focus was on developing the skills (and equipment) to CNC mill complex freestanding figures.

In 2013 part of my output included a large randomised digital projection (scripted in Stencyl) onto a painted canvas. An experimental attempt to achieve the effects claimed by the early 20th century, Havelock North based, magical order Stella Matutina in their underground meditation chamber.

Other projects while at art school include a ceramic board-game, A card game, and some experimentation with augmented reality and adventure games (once again in Stencyl).

I've been a gamer on and off my whole life with an interest in traditional RPGs (DND, Fighting Fantasy, Gurps etc.) and wargaming as well as video games from the Apple ][ through to the PS3. To keep it concise I'm fairly intimate with the catalogs of mastersystem, megadrive, snes, psx, xbox, ps2, gameboy, GBA and NDS.

Favourite games include Jagged alliance 2, the original Fallout, Final Fantasy 7 and the first Metal Gear Solid. In terms of recent-ish indie stuff I've enjoy'd Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery EP, Norrland and Sabbat: Director's kvt.

Basically my personal tastes run toward single player non-linear narrative (or at least providing the illusion of player freedom).

Member of the gaming world/ salt world online community for over a decade which the creators of barkley shut up and jam gaiden and hotline miami emerged from.

Interests outside of gaming and art include New Zealand history, ancient history and mythology, architecture, WWI, social history and product design between the wars, music (rap, alternative, electronic, psychedelic folk) as well as investigating the works of marginalised eccentrics (artists, software/game designers, occultists and amateur philosophers).

This year I am going to be doing a graduate diploma in design (print) with the hopes of acquiring the skills to publish highly crafted small run editions of original and out of copyright (overlooked and forgotten) material.

Personal game design dream: custom designed arcade games running through 1930's oscilloscopes.

IT and Gnosticism and the subversion of the internet by web 2.0

[19:55] <obli> do you guys think digital technology has an inherently Gnostic orientation

[19:57] <RavenBlack> I use lower case "m" as it's a mior compulsive thingy

[19:57] <TechieDragon> Or we could have OGA - AS  Olive Garden Anonymous - Alfredo Sauce

[19:57] <TechieDragon> OGA - BS

[19:57] <TechieDragon> how so?

[19:57] <RavenBlack> refresh me, Gnostics are???

[19:57] <RavenBlack> sorry,forget things

[19:57] <@Otter> i like your tie tacks, TD

[19:57] <@Otter> how do you secure the hardware to the stones?

[19:57] <TechieDragon> well if I recall - Gnostics is taken from the latin Gnosis which is to know

[19:57] <RavenBlack> ancient nerds then,right???

[19:57] <@Otter> hmmm

[19:58] <@Otter> what do you mean by "digital technology" Obli?

[19:58] <TechieDragon> well the first few I used regular superglue.  I tried a different "jewlery" glue, which didn't work so I got some 2-part epoxy which has been working much better

[19:58] <@Otter> the culture of them who create it?

[19:58] <@Otter> all who use it?

[19:59] <obli> gnostiism is a transcendent religious orientation, they believe the material universe was made by an evil deity and must be overcome

[19:59] <obli> i mean stuff like VR, augmented reality... that kind of stuff

[19:59] <obli> the inernet

[19:59] <obli> internet

[20:00] <TechieDragon> well the Gnostics got in trouble because they claimed you didn't need the preists or the bishops to have a commune with God.

[20:00] <TechieDragon> The Ancient Gnostics almost remind me of extentalists

[20:00] <RavenBlack> Martin Luthers great grand parents

[20:00] <@Otter> the innermost thoughts of my kitche timer?

[20:00] <TechieDragon> I have to go, my neck is spasming so I will be back tomorrow....

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[20:02] <obli> i mean it seems like most speculative writing about the digital sees it as a means to "overcome" reality

[20:02] <@Otter> you're thinking maybe it's inherently gnostic becuase it deals with a non-physical world?

[20:03] <@Otter> i don't know.... Twitter isn't isn't the Mind of God

[20:03] <@Otter> or at last i sure HOPE it isn't!

[20:04] <obli> might be hidden in geocities

[20:04] <RavenBlack> massive geo caches

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[20:06] <obli> kind of feels like web 2.0 was a massive curbing of the potential of the internet

[20:06] <obli> "Social media"

[20:08] <obli> societies overcoming of the web :P

[20:12] <@Otter> isn't geocities gone now?

[20:13] <@Otter> you may have a point about 2.0

[20:13] <RavenBlack> Geo Caches are thriving,website gets updated all the time with new stuff

[20:13] <@Otter> it's actually kindof retro

[20:13] <obli> theres geocities archives

[20:14] <@Otter> like going from a modern music keyboard to a 70s electronic organ

[20:14] <@Otter> people like the old ones because of their limitations

[20:15] <obli> https://neocities.org/

[20:15] <@Otter> with the more recent tech, you can get lost in the features, and since you never really come to the end of what sounds it can make

[20:15] <@Otter> it's arguably impossible to achieve virtuosity as a musician with that instrument

[20:17] <obli> yeah

[20:21] <obli> i think its

[20:21] <obli> more

[20:21] <obli> that every web 2.0 application is more limited than irc

[20:21] <obli> facebook

[20:21] <obli> twitter

[20:21] <obli> tumblr

[20:23] <obli> it's all shallow and broad

[20:23] <obli> or curatorial and inert

[20:23] <obli> i think the main limitation

[20:23] <obli> is they channel your responce

[20:24] <obli> if you wanted to respond to something online before web 2.0 you hd to make a website

[20:25] <obli> it nesicated a lot of creative decision making

[20:26] <obli> now you can just blast nonsense out on twitter

[20:28] <obli> :P

[20:51] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> web 2.0 killed creativity on the inbternet
[20:51] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> before blogs if you wanted to comment on something online
[20:51] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> you had to design a website
[20:52] <EDC_> that's how you knew the comment was worth reading
[20:52] <EDC_> they wouldn't go through all that trouble to design a website from scratch unless they had a DAMN good reason!
[20:53] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> yep
[20:53] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> or they were really frothing insane
[20:54] <MyKowaiJapaneseHighschool> which was also good
[20:54] <EDC_> the point was it was one or the other, black or white, no grey areas
[20:54] <EDC_> if you couldn't tell the difference, you DESERVED to be misinformed