The role of the diabolic in reenchantment with a digression on animal rights and class

[01:53] <obli> i guess the question i am getting at

[01:55] <obli> if that if christians assert that the gods are demons within the lens of christianity: is it better to say "yeah, so what?" and be fared, or say "no, they are gods" and have them dismissed as non existant

[01:55] <obli> fared =feared

[02:00] <@Otter> hmmm

[02:00] <@Otter> i don't think i've ever felt a need to respond to that at all

[02:02] <@Otter> i often tell chrsitians that "saint" is a reasonable translation of "god", but nto because they're ranting about how Brid is a demon

[02:02] <obli> out of the 3 what is the most spiritually effective though... the most effective at the reenchantment of the west

[02:03] <obli> i think terror is a valid avanue of reenchantment

[02:03] <obli> horror

[02:03] <@Otter> lol

[02:04] <@Otter> hmmm

[02:04] <@Otter> you may have a point there

[02:05] <obli> look at the rise in the belief in satan as an actual entity after the exorcist

[02:05] <@Otter> the sort of christian who has the preacher over to perform an exorcism because he doesn't like his teenager's t-shirt definitely beleives in magic

[02:06] <obli> how good a propaganda tool for paganism has the wickerman been

[02:06] <@Otter> or wicca

[02:07] <obli> yeah

[02:08] <obli> i mean.. the contemporary christian line i think works well for asserting the spiritual potency of the gods

[02:08] <@Otter> which line is that?

[02:09] <obli> the idea that "hell" is just a state of separation from "god"

[02:09] <obli> and that "demons" have the supernatural power

[02:09] <@Otter> what does that have to do with our gods?

[02:10] <@Otter> i don't engage with abrahamism

[02:10] <obli> well when hell isn't being drowned for eternity in lakes of boiling piss and more not being stuck singing the praises of yhwh for eternity, it's less effective of a threat

[02:11] <obli> and doesn't really contradict other conceptions of the "afterlife" such as they are

[02:11] <@Otter> if someone is looking for an alternative, i'll try to help

[02:13] <obli> I think paganism has a great destiny

[02:13] <obli> bigger than jesus

[02:13] <obli> sacrificing 3 times as many animals

[02:14] <obli> worshipping 10 times as many idols

[02:14] <@Otter> i think that hell, being separated from the divine, isn't possible

[02:14] <@Otter> it's an illusion

[02:14] <@Otter> LOL

[02:15] <@Otter> how did animal sacrifice get demonized?

[02:15] <obli> search me

[02:15] <obli> i know how it stays demonised

[02:15] <@Otter> the bible gives instructions

[02:16] <obli> you only need to pay attention to the bibles instructions when its telling you who to hate :P

[02:17] <@Otter> maybe it's just that peopile moved off the land and so stopped raising and slauggghtering the ir own meat

[02:17] <obli> not to get too sidetracked, but i think theres a definate class aspect to it... alienating the lower classes from nature

[02:18] <obli> all the initial animal protection measures were aimed at lower class passtimes

[02:18] <obli> cock fighting, dog fighting

[02:19] <obli> look at how little political will there is to put an end to fox hunting in the uk

[02:19] <obli> or bullfighting in spain

[02:19] <@Otter> LOL

[02:19] <@Otter> yeah.  i tried that one where they tell you to dash the heads of babylonian children against rocks

[02:19] <@Otter> it really works

[02:19] <@Otter> i've been much happier since i stasted doing that

[02:20] <@Otter> hmmm

[02:21] <@Otter> don't they have laws against fox hunting over there now?

[02:22] <@Otter> i vaguely recall a brit complaining about how  he wasn't allowed to kill the foxes taht were eating his chieckes

[02:22] <@Otter> chickens

[02:23] <obli> they do, but the new primeminister wants to repeal them

[02:23] <obli> and

[02:23] <obli> i dunno how hard they are enforced

[02:24] <obli> definitely a lot less hard than laws against dogfighting

[02:24] <obli> anyway

[02:24] <@Otter> might not apply to rich folk hunting on the ir own land

[02:24] <@Otter> i see a difference

[02:24] <obli> sorry

[02:24] <@Otter> fox hunting is hunting

[02:24] <@Otter> what did you do now, obli?

[02:25] <obli> back to weaponising christian metaphysics as a vehicle for reenchantment

[02:27] <obli> basically demons are seen as having power, christianity gives that which it idenitfies as demonic a level of spiritual authority. and hell is no longer a punishment

[02:28] <obli> i wonder if it's worth taking that and running with it

[02:29] <@Otter> the goal being to combat mechanism?

[02:29] <obli> and to exult the gods

[02:29] <obli> but yes

[02:30] <obli> crush materialism

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@OtterobliTj_Teddy