games as entertainment, games as art

[05:35] <obli> wouldn't you rather make art than something entertaining that appeals to people
[05:38] <calaquin> explosions is art obli
[05:39] <obli> michael bey has proved otherwise
[05:39] <calaquin> in fact they are the purest form of art
[05:39] <calaquin> an explosion lasts only a brief moment, the form practically blinding the audience, and leaving a lasting impression afterward
[05:39] <obli> michael bey has proved otherwise
[05:40] <calaquin> he is a true artist
[05:41] <calaquin> on their own, each Transformers movie is terrible
[05:41] <calaquin> but when you put the four together
[05:41] <calaquin> they become something much more
[05:41] <quackgyver> obli: imo good UX/presentation is art
[05:41] <quackgyver> an art rather
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[05:41] <quackgyver> taking something rough and figuring out why it feels uncomfortable
[05:41] <quackgyver> and using your own subjective set of skills to solve these problems
[05:42] <quackgyver> usually in creative ways
[05:42] <quackgyver> i think is a pretty noble cause
[05:43] <quackgyver> if it reduces the amount of self-expression you get to do from 100% to like, 90% then id say thats a pretty great compromise
[05:43] <quackgyver> i like to do both things :d
[05:43] <quackgyver> er, an artform*
[05:44] <obli> more like... design...
[05:44] <quackgyver> like if you are expected to follow writing conventions like "dont begin your story with it was a dark and stormy night" then you might as well follow conventions like "don't have your player sit through something boring for too long"
[05:44] <quackgyver> whats the diff
[05:45] <quackgyver> i guess what im saying is, im pretty sure people design the vessel through which they express their art based on their subjective agendas
[05:46] <obli> design is concerned with the audiance
[05:46] <quackgyver> whether a painting or game
[05:46] <obli> art is concerned with authenticity
[05:46] <obli> you can authenticly reject authenticity as a locus of value
[05:46] <obli> and create something highly designed
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[05:47] <obli> but it's going to push the design thinking to a point where it is sickening
[05:47] <obli> like pop art
[05:47] <obli> or minimalism
[05:47] <quackgyver> yes but thats still art
[05:47] <quackgyver> youre laying down like
[05:47] <quackgyver> the no true scotsman of art :/
[05:49] <quackgyver> art is just human creative expression.
[05:49] <obli> it's about the sublime and the beautiful.... good art is sublime.. it overcomes the audience... it doesn't embrace their base desires
[05:49] <obli> just give them what they want
[05:51] <quackgyver> obli the only art i want to express is gags and yuk yuks
[05:51] <quackgyver> and mix it up with some subversive comedy and presentation
[05:52] <quackgyver> and maybe some abstract/surreal stuff
[05:52] <quackgyver> so with that in mind
[05:52] <quackgyver> i think its only gonna help if my game's overall presentation connects well with the audience
[05:52] <quackgyver> cus without norms you cant subvert norms
[05:52] <quackgyver> like the shitty pop art you just mentioned
[05:53] <quackgyver> the game needs to be an inconspicuous vessel that comfortably takes the player to the points where i wanna express something of interest
[05:53] <quackgyver> IMO thats not too bad
[05:54] <quackgyver> but its also lowbrow, sure
[05:54] <quackgyver> its a game.
[05:54] <obli> games are art