Moon Magic I - Prayer for divine intercession against the supplanting of the human race by robots

Endless latticed skeletons
We build our betters
Pray for EMP
Or Dianic mercy
Obliterated under the impending moon.

Art unto Death

<obli2> do you like drugs makoti :)
<makoti> no
<makoti> id like to be sane thx
<makoti> and i can use my money to better stuff
<obli2> the more drugs you take the better you get at art
<mbison> nope
<obli2> its true mbison
<mbison> weird art maybe
<mbison> o.o
<obli2> good art
<mbison> like
<makoti> yknow thats not true
<obli2> like r crumb
<obli2> like
<makoti> unless ur twisted lol
<obli2> mobiua
<obli2> mobius
<mbison> o.o
<obli2> like
<obli2> Aubrey Beardsley
<makoti> so these people do drugs?
<makoti> and how about the 'average artists' must we all start taking drugs now?
<mbison> o.o drugs just mess up ur brains
<makoti> dont even tell those stuff to young people
<makoti> u just gonna mislead them
<mbison> u just need ot practice alot
<obli2> practice is hopeless without vision
<mbison> o_0
<mbison> why do u need drugs for vision
<obli2> why settle for half measures
<mbison> its not half measures
<mbison> o_0
<obli2> why be satisfied taking only two steps towards the edge when you can go right to the lip
<mbison> why can't u be at the tip wihtout drugs
<mbison> u saying ppl can't be creative wihtout drugs ?
<makoti> he prolly just trolling
<obli2> i'm saying you are only a fraction as creative as you could be with them
<makoti> nah i dont think u need to compare urself to anyone to be successful especially when it comes to art
<obli2> its like a sports superstar... no matter how hard you train.. you'll always be better with drugs
<makoti> its different for everyone
<obli2> its not comparing yourself with anyone
<obli2> it's comparing yourself with yourself
<makoti> with drugs and no drugs
<obli2> achiving your full potential
<mbison> o_0
<obli2> i'll admit i'm biased... as in.,.. this only applies to the kind of artists whose work i find interesting
<obli2> not like... photo realists or abstract expressionists
<obli2> though i imagine drugs would probably help them too
<mbison> yes yoru type of art is quite different to what we like o.o
<mbison> and what the majoirty of the population likes
<obli2> symbolists and surrealists and expressionists those who blend the representational with the subjective
<mbison> o_0
<makoti> u make my iron low
<makoti> i feel dizzy now
<mbison> o.o
<obli2> one day i will take drugs :)
<mbison> i thoght u use to take weed
<makoti> maybe ill try it once
<obli2> and lsd and shrooms and nos once
<makoti> but i dont even have access to it so thats good :)
<makoti> and i dont feel i need to
<makoti> i want to have a positive outlook in life even if im surrounded by vampires and leeches
<obli2> why
<mbison> o.o
<mbison> my couisn use to be a drug dealer
<mbison> selling weed
<obli2> prehaps you value life to much
<obli2> art > life
<mbison> o.o
<makoti> theres no such thing as valuing ? life too much, just selfishness, everyone wants to live as how they want, everyones life is valuable
<obli2> you willnever be great at art if you care about your life more than your art
<mbison> o_0 u dont need drugs to do great art
<makoti> well i guess im just mediocre to think that way
<makoti> but ur just over the top
<obli2> its called being passionate
<makoti> even if im like this, it doesnt mean im not
<mbison> o_0
<obli2> morality is useless to artists
<makoti> it's like when we love a person, someone may express that love to someone much greather than the other
<makoti> but the other who couldn't express it much
<makoti> it doesn't mean s/he love the person any less
<mbison> i'm confused we talkign about destroyign our brain with drugs so we can do "good art" o.0?
<makoti> lol
<makoti> i dunno
<makoti> am just blabbing
<obli2> commitment to an ideal isn't subjective though
<obli2> like a reciprical relationship
<mbison> why can't u do good art if u value ur life more
<mbison> if practice alot then your art woudl still be pretty good
<obli2> you can justify your position all day and night... but the fact is 100% commitment will manifest the ideal far moreeffectively than 20% commitment and a bunch of rationalisations
<mbison> o.0
<mbison> but whats it got to do with valueing life, can't u value life and be commited 100%
<obli2> you have to be prepared to die for your art
<obli2> tolive in misery
<mbison> o_0
<mbison> what type of art
<mbison> perfornacne art?
<obli2> all art is a preformance
<mbison> if its jsut rawing then u dont really need to prepare to die
<obli2> you just manifest it on paper
<mbison> o_0
<mbison> u still ain't gonna die for something you are sitting down to do
<obli2> think of the journalist in the warzone
<obli2> they are ready to die to get the story
<mbison> o_0 nope
<mbison> they feel more safe knowing they are in a safezone
<obli2> would you  be a jpournalist in the ukraine?
<mbison> look at iraq
<makoti> in general, normal people dont wanna die for something or someone
<mbison> they had buildings where no one was allowed to bomb like there was some rule
<mbison> o_0
<obli2> yeah normalpeo[ple
<mbison> those journalist would never enter if that area was a safezone
<obli2> thats why  normal people arn't artists
<makoti> there are just few insane ones who think out of the ordinary
<mbison> normal ppl are artist, they aer just not your kind of artist
<mbison> o.o
<obli2> yes
<obli2> they are weak tepid artists who are scared
<mbison> most ppl enjoy drawngs, 3d art
<makoti> it's not weakness
<makoti> it's just living in reality and valuing your life, family, and passion
<makoti> go is like life, if you just focus on one local position, you'll miss the other good things in life, and in a bigger perspective, die
<makoti> but if it's your kind of game, it doesn't mean you didn't live life fully, you just played differently and died
<obli2> to die for your art shows it is real
<obli2> more real than your life
<mbison> o_0 shows u are batshit insane
<mbison> jut to pelase a few and get notice
<obli2> as if buying into perpetuating the capitalist system is sane... theres no garantees there... no one really beleives in it... they do it becuase they are scared
<makoti> blah
<mbison> what are u on about
<mbison> o.o
<makoti> to die for your art shows it is real - thats ur opinion that i think different
<makoti> but*
<makoti> i wont chat further more than this nonsense
<obli2> it's all good... i can understand why you would... i just think its more about serving yourself than serving your art

Genocide and Nationalism

[19:04] <RandomWizard> One thing large civilizations of the past have in common is that they collapsed. The environment is in too bad a shape for us to not fix and let it get better on it's own. Globalization has made it that all developed civilizations could collapse at the same time. If that happens before we fix the earth then we will have destroyed it. The odds are worse for the Earth then for my marriage :P

[19:06] <Tj_Ennui> lol

[19:06] <obli> um

[19:07] <obli> one thing small civilisations of the past have in common is they collapsed as well

[19:07] <obli> :P

[19:07] <obli> prehaps they would have done better

[19:07] <obli> if they had

[19:07] <Tj_Ennui> pssh...people have been saying that for YEEARS..i'm still waiting

[19:07] <obli> telephones

[19:07] <Tj_Ennui> obli: all civilsations 'of the past' have collapsed...ergo: "of the past" lol

[19:07] <RandomWizard> The root of our problems is overpopulation. If we went down to 1 billion world wide, it would actually be a cakewalk. There would be great room for economic growth, little pollution, and enough people to make great changes.

[19:08] <obli> the power is in your hands RandomWizard

[19:08] <obli> personally i think thats a hot pile of malthusian bullshit

[19:08] <obli> but you know

[19:09] <RandomWizard> Okay... Three generations from now tell me I was wrong :P

[19:09] <obli> will do

[19:10] <RandomWizard> lol

[19:11] <obli> you know population growth has been slowing for decades right?

[19:12] <obli> perimistic predictions are humanity will peak at 10 billion in 2100... optomistic ones are 8 billion in 2050

[19:12] <RandomWizard> Yes. But it's still growing. We are still polluting more. Our fresh water supply is dwindling. The economic gap is growing. etc.

[19:12] <obli> well pollution needspolitical will

[19:14] <obli> the problem is we are bound by a political ideology where the pinnacle of success is 3% growth

[19:14] <RandomWizard> I'm not saying that it over for humanity... just like my marriage isn't over. This is just the most important time for both.

[19:14] <obli> only if we fail :P

[19:15] <RandomWizard> :-)

[19:15] <RavenBlack> I bet you are one of those pppl who want to pass loads and loads of laws to "cure things" and then refuse to pass bills to support those laws, and yet the laws have been passed so they must be enforced so money must be taken from other places like Roads,and Schools,and Homeless,and such so the crime rate goes way up,oh,and at the same time ppass laws so the illegals can get a free ride!!!!!

[19:15] <obli> if we succeed then another most important time will come up in the future

[19:15] <RandomWizard> Hardly.

[19:15] <obli> nah i'm a hardcore socialist

[19:16] <obli> we don't really have "illegals" here

[19:16] <RandomWizard> Sorry, Hardly RavenBlack.

[19:16] <obli> 3000 kms of ocean is a hard barrier to summount

[19:17] <@Alusa> how did we get here from me talking about reselling scrapmetal?

[19:17] <RandomWizard> LOL!

[19:17] <obli> you think i'm ravenblack?

[19:18] <RandomWizard> obli: I do not thing you're RavenBlack :)

[19:18] <RandomWizard> think!

[19:19] <obli> anyway... handwringing about overpopulation is one of the things conservatism thrives on... so when its entirely unwarranted it's doubly harmful

[19:21] <RavenBlack> we are getting random shootings here almost everyday,those caught are allmost all illegals,if I had my way we would microchip every person sent back so they couldn't get back in again!!!

[19:22] <RavenBlack> Dream Well Alusa

[19:22] <@Alusa> lol

[19:22] <RavenBlack> Dream Well Otter

[19:22] <@Alusa> i should get going

[19:22] <@Alusa> good night

[19:22] <RavenBlack> Dream Well DJGamerGirl

[19:23] * Alusa hugs RavenBlack

[19:23] <RavenBlack> Dream Well Moonshadow

[19:23] == Alusa [~Alusa@adsl-108-68-153-79.dsl.skt2ca.sbcglobal.net] has left #PaganJourney [Leaving...]

[19:23] <RandomWizard> The Tories here actually are climate change deniers and feel that there is no problem what so ever.

[19:23] <RavenBlack> Dream Well obli

[19:23] <RavenBlack> Dream Well RandomWizard

[19:23] <RavenBlack> Dream Well Tj_Ennui

[19:23] <obli> yeah all neo liberal parties are like that RavenBlack

[19:23] <obli> RandomWizard:

[19:23] <RandomWizard> MP RavenBlack\

[19:23] <obli> entirely driven by ideology

[19:23] == RavenBlack [~mecsr@76.191.79.194] has quit [Quit: To short is every time on Earth,to short the time to Death,from ReBirth!!!]

[19:25] <RandomWizard> Yeah, after all, the security state model is working so well as it is, why not just go that extra step :)

[19:33] <RandomWizard> Alusa: I've heard of people making money by offering to clear away scrap metal for free and then actually selling it to the scrap yards.

[19:34] <RandomWizard> I've also heard of an outfit you can sell scrap electronics to.

[19:45] <RandomWizard> Almost time to go.

[19:46] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: you should REALLY watch the latest Criminal Minds episode :)

[19:46] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: Dwight D. Eisenhower once wrote, “If you want total security, go to prison. There, you're fed, clothed, given medical care, and so on. The only thing lacking is freedom.”

[19:47] <RandomWizard> I get few chances fot TV :/

[19:47] <RandomWizard> for

[19:48] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: O.O cbc.ca

[19:48] <Tj_Ennui> sorry ctv

[19:48] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: www.ctv.ca/CriminalMinds/video.aspx should be up in a few days

[19:49] <RandomWizard> Thanks :)

[19:49] <Tj_Ennui> wow it's up already

[19:49] <Tj_Ennui> "10 16: lockdown"

[19:56] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: i say random genocide...always solves everything..start over :P

[19:57] <RandomWizard> Lets do it! :)

[20:09] <obli> hi Otter

[20:10] <Moonshadow> I don't think genocide is the answer, think about it killing off the population doesn't change the fact that once the world becomes populated again the same process of pollution and all other issues won't arise again

[20:14] <Tj_Ennui> also RandomWizard you're canadian? :D

[20:14] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: genocide again...

[20:14] <Tj_Ennui> ?

[20:14] <RandomWizard> Yeah.

[20:15] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: we can do it right next time...like, limit population growth to begin with. And this time we will be starting with low population+high tech, which we never had

[20:15] <Moonshadow> Tj that doesn't change anything

[20:16] <obli> you are aware who you sound like right Tj_Ennui

[20:16] <RandomWizard> Could always just kill again :>

[20:16] <Moonshadow> Actually how would you have high tech if this new population would have no knowledge of this supposed technology

[20:17] <obli> I think this monstrous conversation underlines something i was musing on today

[20:17] <Moonshadow> They would basically be like caveman starting from scratch

[20:17] <Tj_Ennui> obli: yes...

[20:17] <obli> evolution is a real problem for paganism

[20:17] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: o no i meant, new population would just be us...not like some crazy catastrophe, prevent said catastrophe by engineered one

[20:17] <Tj_Ennui> obli: eh?

[20:18] <obli> it calls into question our ability to intuitively derive meaning from nature

[20:18] <Moonshadow> That isn't realistic though

[20:18] <Tj_Ennui> obli: nod

[20:18] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: i know :(

[20:19] <obli> since it seems like most peoples intuitive reaction to knowledge of evolution is to start wanking on about the greatness of genocide

[20:19] <Tj_Ennui> obli: hey, i'm depressed, bored of life, and generally misanthropic..what did you expect?

[20:19] <Tj_Ennui> obli: eh?

[20:20] <Moonshadow> The real problem is that humanity as a whole takes from the earth expecting it to be ever so abundant and not give her anything in return for that which she provides for us

[20:20] <Tj_Ennui> obli: i'm thinking about it entirely objectively. Think about what you do if you are say playing a video game (let's say civ 4) and the whole thing becomes too much of a mess to manage...you start over

[20:20] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: nod

[20:21] <obli> life isn't a videogame

[20:21] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: at least in developed countries like US, Europe, Canada etc, there is a LITTLE bit of the give back nowadays..you should see places like india or guam

[20:22] <Tj_Ennui> obli: just applying the same logic

[20:22] <obli> we are producing enough food to feed everyone... we have the capability to vastly reduce our levels of air polution... population is set to peak then decline in the next century

[20:22] <Tj_Ennui> obli: i get why that's bad obviously...but unfortunately I am capable of perfectly judgmentless objective thinking

[20:23] <obli> the malthusian dimelas are not based on reality

[20:23] <obli> the only thing perpetuating them is globalised capitalism

[20:23] <Tj_Ennui> obli: hmm

[20:23] <Tj_Ennui> obli: yes...

[20:24] <RandomWizard> Mostly, my life is crumbling around me.. I'm probably just trying to drag the world with me.

[20:24] <Tj_Ennui> obli: well there's that..ultimately i think the only way to get out of our 'dilemna' is to do away with capitalism

[20:24] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: heh same here

[20:24] <obli> yep

[20:25] <RandomWizard> :)

[20:26] <Tj_Ennui> obli: but imo is about as realistic as engineered genocide

[20:26] <Tj_Ennui> i mean come on...going BACK to primitive communism? dream come true..but realistic?

[20:27] <Tj_Ennui> obli: ofc, you CAN engineer that too, if you are rich and clever enough (i actually have a detailed plan for this), but it would take at least 3-4 generations to "purge" our "capitalist" mentality and till then it's gonna be a mess

[20:27] <RandomWizard> Capitalism all the way... just the death sentence for anyone with more the 15 million :)

[20:28] <Tj_Ennui> RandomWizard: some of the money thing is LUDICRIOUS if you really do the math...

[20:29] <RandomWizard> That's my jest ;)

[20:29] <Tj_Ennui> in any average-high end american city (lets exclude say NYC and such)...something like $15mill or so is enough for a small/nuclear family for 40 years or so

[20:30] <RandomWizard> Or my student loans :P

[20:30] <Moonshadow> We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.

[20:30] <Moonshadow> Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

[20:30] <Tj_Ennui> i mean ... 15mill/(12*40) is like 30K$

[20:30] <Tj_Ennui> that's RIDICULOUS...$30K/mth, is amazing

[20:30] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: :)

[20:31] <Tj_Ennui> Moonshadow: i agree

[20:31] <obli> things happen quickly in politics Tj_Ennui

[20:32] <RandomWizard> I'm a spiritual being having a really crappy experience :)

[20:32] <obli> where would we be today if some trigger happy redneck had squeezed one off during the cliven bundy showdown?

[20:33] <Tj_Ennui> obli: it's not about politics, at all. That will happen quick enough, but you HAVE to do it slow, to allow people to TRULY get into the mindset of "communism"...or all that will happen is you'll keep bringing the system down because of some jerk who thinks he can take advantage of the system by hoarding a buttload of stuff and "muahahhaa"

[20:33] <obli> nah

[20:34] <Tj_Ennui> obli: true communism requires everyone to be have the "community ownership" attitude

[20:34] <obli> the reason communism failed was because it happened in weak minor states

[20:34] <Tj_Ennui> obli: you ever see what happened when western "man" went/met with some of those tribes that still had no concept of monye or ownership?

[20:34] <Tj_Ennui> obli: "states"

[20:34] <Tj_Ennui> obli: ?

[20:35] <obli> and the capitalist countries spent 80 years strangling them to death through trade

[20:35] <Tj_Ennui> no...the reason it failed was because it happened in "states"...weak was just the icing

[20:35] <Tj_Ennui> when i say communism i mean. no state, no govt., no ownership, no money

[20:36] <Tj_Ennui> no one even has any idea about how to "own" things... "this fire is 'yours'? what do you mean 'yours'..that doesn't make sense"

[20:36] <obli> tribalism is worthless Tj_Ennui ... worthless brutal anarchist shit... for the individual to have any agency requires the state

[20:38] <Moonshadow> Well it's time for bed, goodnight all

[20:38] <RandomWizard> Sleep well

[20:39] <Moonshadow> You too when you get there

[20:39] == Moonshadow [~AndChat27@m830436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]

[20:40] <Tj_Ennui> obli: ahh well then that's different, you want people to have agency...ok, that might be doable,..but not sure how well you could "sustain" that ... the biggest issue would be preventing it from "naturally evolving" back to "capitalism"

[20:40] <Tj_Ennui> obli: i was wanting what you call "tribalism"...

[20:44] <obli> its going to require a resurgence in nationalism... thats the only way shit gets done... as opposed to just happening... people have to want their countries to be great

[20:50] <Tj_Ennui> hmm nationalism is tricky...

[20:51] <obli> yeah...america definitely isn't equipped to handle it... and may never be

[20:51] <RandomWizard> yeah

[20:51] <Tj_Ennui> if you don't do it right it can end up with "my country is great..YOURS is the one that is making it shit..KILL ALL OUTSIDERS"

[20:51] <Tj_Ennui> eheh

[20:51] <Tj_Ennui> finally something we both agree on

[20:52] <Tj_Ennui> :)

[20:53] <obli> luckily we have history... which shows us that its far from a sure path to making your country great

[20:53] <Tj_Ennui> nod

[20:55] <obli> the way to make your nation great is cultural outpourings

[20:55] <obli> sun ra understood

[20:56] <obli> You’ve got to have a cultural structure for people to recognize you because they recognize you by your cultural structure. Like, sometimes with America and with Russia, Russia sends their ballet over, send their culture over and show them, “We’re doing something. We believe in beauty.”

[20:56] <obli> And the Chinese, they send over their Chinese opera and the Japanese, they have a lot of films over here, they send their cultural things. A nation is compelled to recognise these people are valid and have principals and structure.

[20:56] <obli> - sun ra

[20:59] <RandomWizard> Gearing up to go. :)

[21:01] <Tj_Ennui> obli: hmm nod

Meditations upon lana del rey

nothing about her post born to die
stuff has cried out to me

i don't think it's doing as much as her first album, but its pretty nice chil stuff

also there arn't those random awful songs

like that carmen song is awful

from the first album
how so

well i didn't like the carmen song

or the this is what makes us girls song

they were kind of whingy and also really tragic....

i dunno i just didn't like listening to them
i like carmen
i dunno about this is what makes us girls...at all.. it lacks the illusion of being considered
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoeRQ9ko0qQ

LANA DEL REY - YAYO (DEMO)
www.youtube.com

i like that song

from the first album i like off to the races, lolita, born to die, mountain dew... um i like national anthem, but nit the album version the demo version
what do you think of put me in a movie

i haven't heard that one
its p fucked up

found it, now am going to listen to it

i mean, for me that just fits in with the narrative that kinda is going in the album. the lolita thing, and in off to the races she's talking about sugar daddies, i mean the way she talks about relationships, she is allways (despite character) owned by a man. i find her lyrics annoying, but i think it kinda points out that as far as we try and get away from the 50s, things are still damn tough for women
you read that metamodernist desconstruction of her tropes aye

or maybe she just has this romanticised view of things... give everything up for love, but i mean seldom were 50s relationships about fucking love

uh no i haven't... or is that the thing you sent me about reading her music video with the biker dudes

?
yergle
but its about more than that video
its about the glorification of the dispossed as having transended the system

i think though, there is definately men, who are not going for "little girls" as such like the lyrics say, but in women they look for women who are the "innocent type" or who are "childlike" or "cute"

i think the song is about that
as having lives are lived on axis outside of the concerns market

not pedophillia

though, it could be either

i gues only lana del rey knows what her lyrics are on about
concerns of the market

im not really following, are you talking about minority groupsss....
nah
Grant Morrison ga ve a talk ata disinfo confrence once where he said the middle class were the only class bound by the strictures of the capitalist system
the only people who money matters for
above them are a class of people who get everything for free becuase they are powerful and connected so bussinesses attempt to buy their favour
and below them are the criminal class who just steal what they need
it's not a paticularly complete picture
but i think it's relevant to the milieu's of lanas songs
i mean in her songs shes always right on the fringe where if the one thing she has falls through she's entirely alone and helpless, or some kind of trophy inhabiting the world of the ultra rich..
divorced from the mundane acts required for long term survival
in either case
it's a good place to inhabit as a narrative artist... a lot more dramatic than songs affirming the system (a lot of modern rap and older country for example)