The place of ceremonial magic in Paganism

the chief purpose of ceremonial magic in the service of Paganism (rather than paganism in the service of magic) is to create or acknowledge a space in which the subtle aspects of the Gods can be clearly read by the magician

architectures continuing prominence in the hierarchy of the arts

do believe in a hierarchy of the arts cole

Yeah.
how so
Saturday 15:07

Yes.
30 minutes ago
i meant... what art is on top as the greatest of the arts in your hierachy

I think either film or literature.
i still think its architecture
and the shitness of contemporary architecture prestaged the general decline in the arts
quality wise

I don't think so.

Architecture is too tied up in cost, efficiency, and practicality.

I think architecture has essentially ceased to exist as an art form.
now... it used to be less so... the styles of the early 20th century were shaped by economic concerns... but still included alot of decorative elements that had no economic justification... and the buildings of the 19th century consiously followed pre-defined asthetics for asthetic reasons
and the move away from that has been detrimental to the arts

'Arty' architecture today is just queer looking nonsense.
how can something from such an ugly souless enviroment create anything of value

Probably.
something = someone

Not everyone lives in ugly buildings or ugly environments. Mentally, most people spend a lot of time immersed in other environments.
they are enviorments informed by the prevailing enviroment of peoples contemporary reality though... thats why its a hierarchy

That's why I dismiss it as an art form.

It's not even trying to be an art form.
yes and thats why its having such a negative effect upon the arts... because it is an artform... probably the most important artform... and it is a slave to an extreme minimalist ideology that pervades the architectural establishment

Minimalist ideology that pervades funding.

I agree.
ever heard of an essay called "Ornament and Crime"

Adolph von Loos?
yer

Yes.
this is where it ends up

I half agree with him.
he may be correct about some aspects.... the final outcome wassn't worth the price

Ornamentation shouldn't be because of fleeting fashion trends. It should be out of personal taste or enduring aesthetic beauty.
yeah
the death of ornamentation hasn't made enduring objects though... its just made everything else ugly

Yeah.
that's why architecture is at the top of the hierarchy... despite the complete failure of architects on every level for the last 70 years
failure of architects = dereliction of duty by architects

the piety of animals

<obli> aradia .... what do you think of the idea that some species of animals have a connection with specific deities?
<Zion> very interesting book
<Aradia> i believe its possible obli
<Zion> its all possible
<Patrick123> I never heard that one before
<Zenith> obli, there is no evidence that animals have connections with deities.
<Guest_541> obli not connection with deities, connection with entities... the way its made
<obli> such as dianas proported connection with dogs since they howl at the moon
<Zion> in the ancient egypt they did
<Aradia> obli:  animals can have certain rolls
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<tomprophet> i have more on Purgatory
<Guest_541> such as camels connection with jinn demons
<tomprophet> As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgement, there is a purifying fire.
<Guest_541> probably snakes as well
<Zion> Camels are sacred animals for muslisms
<tomprophet> He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come.
<obli> aradia
<Zion> their urine is a medicine according on them
<Aradia> yes obli
<tomprophet> From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.
<obli> do you think animals are capible of pious behaviour
<tomprophet>  (Matthew 12:31)
<Guest_541> Zion nope, if you eat a camel you must do purification before prayer.. but if you eat lamb or beef you don't need purification
<Aradia> explain obli
<Guest_541> so its not holy
<Zenith> obli lol
<Zion> they need to be sacrified to the deity first like for jews
<obli> behaviour -acknowledging?- the gods
<Aradia> well we arent on about killing things here Zion
<Aradia> YES I DO obli
<Argo> you are statistically more likely to be bitten by a new yorker than by a shark
<tomprophet> This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture:
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<Zion> there is a quote for Matric I like a lot
<Guest_541> or by suarez
<Zion> Matrix*
<tomprophet> "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."  (2Macc 12:46)
<tomprophet> From the beginning the Church has honoured the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice,
<tomprophet> so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.
<obli> i think any connection animals have with a deitey must arise from pious behaviours towards that deity rather than any inherant holyness in the animal