LOAF

<loaf> hi chaps
<@AzureAurum> Hello loaf
<loaf> can i ask you guys a question?
<@AzureAurum> sure
<loaf> do you think paganism is compadible with the new age?
<@AzureAurum> what do you mean by new age?
<KevinJS> I think they are largely sympathetic to each other - or they have similar approaches...Some consider paganism a new age tradition, but that may be being a little too general I think
<loaf> well there was an intrest in various forms of paganism with the rise of rationalism as well..
<loaf> so i don't think its inherantly tied to the new age
<KevinJS> I would agree
<KevinJS> There are a lot of alternative religious/spiritual movements out there - many of them going in different directions
<loaf> i'd say the kind of paganism i'm talking about is the kind recoginizing prechristian divinities
<KevinJS> Well, most pagan traditions focus on pre-christian deities
<KevinJS> Is there something else that you think is pagan that doesn't?
<loaf> well i don't think the question neccicarilly applies to things like neoplatonism and gnostism and stuff
<loaf> forgive my spelling
<loaf> i just suck
<KevinJS> No problems
<loaf> things that claim to be the entire truth in and of themselves
<loaf> i guess that answered my question
<KevinJS> Well, a lot of the philosophies from the late antiquity were very "gnostic" in character. They are generally regarded as apart of the Western Esoteric traditions, but there is a fine line between them, as many of them are considered continuations of The Golden Chain that originated with Orphic tradition
<loaf> i find orphicism interesting
<loaf> i need to read more primary material
<KevinJS> I'd say to be safe, anything "past" Neoplatonism (Hermeticism, etc...) would be a form of gnosticism or western esotericism
<loaf> makes sense
<KevinJS> Especially since Hermetic tradition incorporates Judeo-Christian elements - especially during the Renaissance, where it was conflated with Qabalah

<loaf> what about regular platonic philosophy
<loaf> hmm
<KevinJS> Well, that's a matter of interpretation, but...
<KevinJS> In traditional Hellenic religion, philosophy is an extention of state religion
<loaf> so would you say the ability to pick and choose is a defining feature of the new age
<loaf> becuase it seems like it to me
<KevinJS> I'd say that's a defining feature of eclecticism, but new age definitely incorporates eclecticism by in large
<KevinJS> But eclecticism really started in the late Greek and early Roman period - especially in the west
* KevinJS enjoys such interesting questions :D
<loaf> yeah but it underwent a period of severe repression
<KevinJS> Yes, most definitely
<KevinJS> There are a lot of reasons for that, and there are MANY interpretations
<KevinJS> The best reason is socio-political, in my opinion
<KevinJS> We were moving out of tribal cultures and into "world cultures"
<KevinJS> Christianity helped "standardize" the west - as did Buddhism in the east
<KevinJS> Which is why alternative beliefs, such as Western Esotericism and folk tradition/Witchcraft, went largely underground
<loaf> i find shinto really exciting
<loaf> it managed to coexist with buddhism :P
<KevinJS> Most definitely
<KevinJS> It's important to study a variety of different systems - it gives you an important perspective, if you get what I mean
<loaf> yeah
<loaf> i think shinto is a useful example to pagans of a surviving developed polythiestic system in a modern culture
<KevinJS> Definitely
<loaf> also has alot of crossover with roman polythiesm
<loaf> agricultural roots
<KevinJS> Yup
<loaf> deification of emperors
<loaf> numenism
<loaf> animism
<KevinJS> If you notice, a lot of pagan religions transformed into subtle variations of witchcraft or some form of dual religion like that of Voodoo - where Christian and Pagan beliefs kind of existed side by side
<loaf> do you think pagan reconstructionism is going to last long term?
<loaf> yeah
<KevinJS> This is why I always come back to some form of Neopagan tradition, Witchcraft, or Wicca - despite how modern it is, it reflects that transformation
<KevinJS> I've explored a lot of Polytheistic Reconstructionist traditions as well
<KevinJS> They are quite rigid, and aren't always practical
<KevinJS> Especially considering how different we are than ancient peoples
<loaf> yeah

<loaf> its not like traditions were imutable
<loaf> ever heard of numa pompilius?
<KevinJS> To be honest, there are only a handful of traditions that are currently practiced with a sizeable amount of practictioners. The main two are Hellenic Polytheism (Hellenismos) and Norse Polytheism (Heathenry/Asatru). Gaelic and Egyptian have less, and Canaanite (pre-israelite paganism) is very very small.
<KevinJS> There is also Roman Polytheism, which has about as many practitioners as Egyptian/Kemetic Polytheism, but it's generally eclipsed by Hellenic Polytheism
<KevinJS> Yes, I have heard of numa pompilius
<loaf> egyptian deities get around :P
<KevinJS> yes - especially in modern Ceremonial Magick
<loaf> argueably back to the first rosicrucians
<KevinJS> If you don't mind my asking, do you have your own practice, or are you still seeking?
<loaf> pre gardarian neo-paganism
<loaf> for want of a lable :P
<KevinJS> There are other non-gardnerian forms of neopaganism such as Druidry or Traditional Witchcraft as well
<KevinJS> Have you explored those?
<loaf> i have investigated them
<KevinJS> Good :)
<loaf> traditional witchcraft is alot higher on the magical side and way less developed on the "theological" side
<loaf> pretty much the opposite of what i'm interested in
<KevinJS> Have you researched Polytheistic Reconstructionism?
<loaf> i have
<loaf> i'd be interested in participating were the opportunity avalible
<loaf> for the experiance
<KevinJS> Unfortunately, it's one of the least common forms of Paganism, depending on which tradition
<KevinJS> A large amount of Pagans are solitary eclectics
<loaf> doesn't feel like it would be an endpoint though
<KevinJS> Probably not - it wasn't for me
<loaf> its pretty much by necceccity
<loaf> i mean
<KevinJS> But it's definitely an interesting learning experience
<loaf> even reconstructionists if they are serious about it will pretty much have to interpret things all the time in their day to day lives
<KevinJS> Yes
<KevinJS> I did that for quite some time - I found it was rather aggrivating
<loaf> so pretending some strict adhearance to a reconstruction is the essance of the thing is contradicted by reality :P
<KevinJS> Yes - I was experiencing things that didn't fit well with a recon path, ya know?