ritual and effetivness

<RusticSage> I haven't had any spiritual experiences lately
<@MikeSr> have anything you want to share??
<RusticSage> I feel like a lot of things I have going on with myself are mixed up
<RusticSage> It's difficult to deal with specific things because they seem to affect each other
<@MikeSr> understandable
<@MikeSr> pick one,deal with it,then with the consequences,then move on
<RusticSage> I want to focus of more practical things - both spiritually, emotionally, and physically
<RusticSage> I usually end up staying in my head though
<@MikeSr> the head is a nice hdd
<RusticSage> It's difficult to be deeply mystical in academic traditions
<RusticSage> There is a lot of rigidity in working in a culturally specific manner
<RusticSage> And uncertainty is not really dealt with - it's overlooked
<@MikeSr> or sometimes,set aside for a bit
<RusticSage> To be quite honest, MikeSr: I want the ability to effectively work with states of consciousness and alternate realms
<@MikeSr> practice,study,practice,practice practice
<RusticSage> I have not seen any of that addressed in Hellenismos - they gloss over it in Neoplatonic philosophy, but it's really just abstraction. There are no actual techniques that deal with things like astral travel or trance states
<@MikeSr> just don't get discouraged
<RusticSage> Not to mention that I've heard nothing about how to deal with ghosts or demonic energies - they just tell me to read an academic book that will explain theories, but won't give any actual techniques
<@MikeSr> meditation is a guiding factor
<Guest32610> is there nothing on using mirrors?
<@MikeSr> skrying???
<RusticSage> I've attempted skyring many times - I'm god awful at it
<@MikeSr> (sp???)
<RusticSage> skrying*
<@MikeSr> another thing that takes practice
<RusticSage> I think I might give those neoshamanism books I bought some time ago another chance - neoshamanism is kind of newagey, but I can't deny good techniques
<RusticSage> And in point of fact, I've met just as many radical socialists in Hellenismos as I've met radical hippies in New Age traditions
<@MikeSr> doesn't hurt to redo old points and places
<Guest32610> i think when it comes to getting a spiritual effect whatever works is permissible... its the wholesale plundering of others cultures that is disagreeable
<RusticSage> I agree, Guest32610, but there is a fine line between inspiration and plagiarism

<@MikeSr> Roy was in tonight,said he's going back to natural magick and shamanism.....back to his roots
<Guest32610> yes which is why the futher you are straying from sources that are authentic to what you want to achive the more scientific and stripped down your approach to those methods should be
<Guest32610> just aiming for the effective part
<RusticSage> I think Neoshamanism and even some kinds of Contemporary Witchcraft can be approached more systematically, instead of claiming to be "The Old Religion" or something similar
<Guest32610> well depends what gods you want to work with and your connection to them as to how seriously your claims of "the old religion" should be taken
<Guest32610> imo
<Guest32610> :P
<RusticSage> I don't have a strong connection to a particular pantheon - just personal preferences to certain myths
<Guest32610> why worry about traditions at all then. geniuinely curious
<Guest32610> other than their effectiveness
<RusticSage> Some people feel that they should follow a tradition so they are being more respectful to certain gods/cultures
<Guest32610> thats why when you borrow you should strip things down to just whats effective... as long as its effective and theres nothing extranious... getting a result is more likely to increase your respect than following tradition and getting no result
<RusticSage> True